Shock leader ratios

[Blanko]

I think Steve was just asking whether any deviation from the 'accepted' 10lb to 1oz of lead ratio can in any way unbalance the tackle causing any strains on the leader knot. Which we can all agree isn't going to cause any probs.

Defo agree leader strengths are OTT as back in the 70's/80's few people fished with much less than a 7000 size multiplier and the majority of those would have carried probably 25-30lb line straight through. I remember very few people ever cracking a cast off ,ok granted there were few pendulum casts and tackle was less advanced but the crack off strain on a powerful cast was certainly more than 25lb with the tackle of the day.

I would just stick to the heavier leader to allow for abrasion during the session for safety's sake - I have no desire to repeat the horrible experience I had in 2006 when another angler's cracked off OTG cast hit me in the shoulder hospitalising me with a lot of bleeding in the pit of my shoulder and upper chest. No substitute for taking 20 seconds to check the knots and leader each time if planning a power cast

[Chris-61]

Blanko, you are quite right it doesn't take 20secs just to run your fingers down the leader and check it in-between casts. Heaven forbid you have to suffer something like that again. As for Steve, the post wasn't aimed at anyone it was just a generalisation, sorry to Steve if he thought other wise. Just wanted to make guys think and not just accept what they read and get told on the beach. Tight lines..

Chris.

[djdave]

I think most anglers prefer to use 40lb+ leaders for safety reasons when on crowded beaches and piers I have 40lb leaders on my reels and never snapped one yet like you say Chris most leaders are lost on the main line side of the knot unless damaged check your leader every few casts

[sharpey]

You know you can learn so much from just a simple question on here even at my tender age... Thanks for the comments chaps..!! Some good info there...

[grandadruss]

Just gotta love Chris's post.
Read it and read it and it went totally over my head.
No doubt correct but as a newbie to sea fishing lost me on the second paragraph

[Jimmyjizzmo]

I use 18lb mainline and tapered shockleader (15lb to 70lb) i trim noth ends of the leader
so it matches the mainline at the meeting point and so it isnt too thick at the other
end-i rarely use over a 6oz lead,found bullet tapered leaders to be the best,using
varivas at the minute and it feels a bit brittle.....
I don't have any problems with knot strength (double grinner) compared to
when i was using a solid 60lb leader,i did have problems then when fishing
the mersey the sheeite build up on the line and pulling out of snags etc etc
the leader knot would often fail.......this could be solved by learning how
to tie a bimini twist i suppose but i still think the mersey skate would
stick to this even worse

[sharpey]

Cheers Ian, appreciated mate!

[shagger]

Just playing devils advocate for one moment, when does the Knot fail?? It shouldn't be under any strain on the cast as you should have at least a 7/8 turns round the reel anyway. Also this idea of 10lb for each ounce of lead can be a little misleading. If a rod has the ability to cast 4/6 ounces, and you use 18lb mainline. I recon that very few casters around can compress the rod past it's test curve on the cast, which means that there is no more than 10lb max on the line. If that has come out kinda odd then try this next time you and a mate are out fishing. Set up your rod as you normally do and attach some scales to the
instead of end tackle. Get your mate to hold the scales and see how much pressure you can apply using the rod as you would in a fishing situation. So no straight pulling. You will be shocked at how little strain you can apply. Take it as far as you feel happy( before something breaks) and I would think that you get nowhere near that curve on the cast. Some people just don't realise what there rods won't do and that means shock leaders are way out of proportion. Once you know this it will change the way you play hard fighting fish and it will also change how you set up your rods.. Feel fee to disagree but try this test first.
Also if anyone has cracked off, where has the line snapped?? the leader or the mainline. Also why did it crack off, frap up, mainline round an eye or birds nest for you multiplier users. To answer the question it is always the mainline, so no matter what shock leader you used it wouldn't have made any difference. Next point, as there will be someone who snapped a leader, I bet it wasn't a new one and it had been on for a while, and was damaged somewhere.. Totally new ball game if the fish you are fishing for run risk of rubbing or biting through thinner leaders, but! that's not what all this has been about.. Sorry for the waffle but if it makes you think instead of just taking everything as gospel then it was worth it..

Wow Chris, great to see someone putting an element of thought to a practise We have become brainwashed into following like sheep, my self included.
After reading and re reading your post I felt sure that there was more than a grain
of truth to your hypothesis, especially as any crack offs I’ve incurred have been as
a result of spool over run (birds nest) or wind knots using braid.
These always occurred on the mainline, or shock leader knot.
Knowing nothing of rod test curves and not wishing to put the rod to breaking
Point, I grabbed a couple of mono spools and set off to the field at the bottom of the garden.
Normally I fish 18lb main and 70lb shock leader for the rare times I use a 7oz lead,
for this test though I used my normal 5oz lead and went down to 40lb mono and after
a few casts to sort out line lay and mag settings, I was ready to launch into a few power casts.
Not a problem, so reduced to 30lb mono leader and tentatively built up to full on power casting. Once again, no problems, so removed the leader so now at mainline of 18lbs.
Again a few casts of increasing power ready for a power cast.
This time under full input, but before spool release the lead parted company.
The uni knot at the lead clip had snapped.
Conclusions, well I shall leave you to make your own, but I shall be using a shock leader
of 40lbs from now on, as I am confident of its security and it will give good abrasion resistance.
The advantage is a much smaller shock leader knot flying through the rings.
The knot I use is a Smooth Casting Leader Knot http://fishsa.wordpress.com/fishing-knots/smooth-casting-leader-knot/, which is a variation of a Slim Beauty http://www.netknots.com/fishing_knots/slim-beauty-knot/.
Small tight and strong.
Hope this is of some help.

[Chris-61]

It really just shows how little pressure you can apply to the lead under normal fishing conditions. Am I saying we all should scrap our leaders NO! just think about what/how you want to do things. If anyone gets chance try the scales test it will frighten the living daylights out of you when you see just how much pressure you can't apply under normal fishing. That is why you never pull for a break with a curved rod it is always a straight pull.